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I agree, but
I agree with you, that we didn't do enough to support the '03 candidates after they got into office. We did become complacent, assuming they would all live up to their campaign promises. Clearly none of them did. Yes, none of them. There are no good guys (or gals) here. They've all become so entrenched in their positions that they can't see the forest for the trees.
Having said that, let's talk a minute about what might happen if we split up the fire department.
First, the fire fighters are upset. I talked to some of them at the Taste of Pickerington. Ted Hackworth's name is mud among them. However, you're right. They're professionals. They will adapt.
Second, can two operate as cheaply and efficiently as one? Would it possibly cost more to replicate service in the area? VTFD has an excellent recruiting, hiring and training program. The firefighters have to volunteer for a year before they're hired. Would a start-up fire department be able to recruit the kind of talent a recognized excellent fire department can? Would someone volunteer for a year for a start-up fire department? I can't answer these questions, I'm just throwing them out there.
Second, is the fire department the sum of its individual parts or something more than that? Using the example of Solomon's baby, would that baby be the same if it would have been split? Or would it cease to exist as before? It seems a tremendous leap of faith to assume you could split the fire department and have two departments of equal quality afterwards. That would totally negate the concept of teamwork. Maybe each person within the department brings something different to it, and it functions so well because of that.
It's easy to be vindictive. It's more difficult to maturely assess the situation to come up with the best solution that will benefit everyone, or at least most people.
Your argument about outsourcing doesn't even apply to this situation.
Maybe the answer is for all the people who supported the '03 candidates to start kicking the butts of the children in office. The ones we all put there. The ones who are letting us down daily. The ones who are making us a laughing stock of the surrounding municipalities.
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Refreshing debate
Wow, finally some intelligent debate. How refreshing.
Please allow me to address your posting a little at a time.
I cannot refute your assessment of the city joke called council and yes, we are a laughing stock. Each entity of the government from the mayor to the council and especially the city manager are often the butt of jokes at events locally. I am in sales and municipalities in Central Ohio comprise my primary customer base. I am also at these meetings and am disturbed at the things said about this city.
My argument about outsourcing is based on an earlier posting where someone advocating what was then being called a paper township said the city could contract back with the township fire department for service. Bad idea and I won?’t repeat my argument. Simply stated, if we are to break from the township, it has to be a clean break.
As to staffing a fire department, I would assume that the displaced township staff would have first dibs on jobs, however, there are enough departments including Columbus who would gladly come to work here. This is primarily because of the differences in the types of calls responded to by VTFD versus other areas. I get this information from firemen in the Delaware County area some of whom are customers of mine. The VTFD responds to way less violent crimes and DOA situations than others in the area. Apparently at least one official from the VTFD has been talking to other peers of his crying the blues and demanding solidarity in if the city goes their own way, no one should apply for the new jobs. Well, you can guess what this official was told to his face but I can tell you that I network with ?“the guys?” and they would look forward to coming to work here if the pay is right.
I don?’t feel vindictive in my support of a city township. I feel that if the cost benefit analysis supports this to be a sound business decision and the city will move ahead with such an aciton, then let?’s do it. If I can save a few bucks in taxes not paying the township for apparently nothing, I?’ll be more at ease spending that money with the schools instead.
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City Township??
Anonymous
You seem to be asking more questions than you answer. I have heard this argument and I believe it is based on a theory of ''economics of scale.'' The argument goes that the City can't run a fire department as efficiently as the larger area or the Violet Township Fire. If that is true then the City has Violet Fire Department on the east side on the west side they have Columbus Fire. Since Columbus Fire is so much larger then the argument should be why is Pickerington staying with Violet Fire when they could contract with Columbus and save money?
Patriot,
I believe Ed Laramee made some quotes a few months back on how a paper township is formed. It only takes an action of City Council. Like wise if that is true you could also circulate an initiative petition and create the paper township by citizen action.
I also believe that in that South East Messenger article it indicated that the City paid in real estate taxes to the Violet Fire department around $2.2 Million. I think that is all paid by the city taxpayers through their property taxes. So the next issue you would need to address was how and where do you raise the funds in the City to come up with a like amount to pay for fire service? Would you also propose an income tax increase? Or would you continue to rely on property tax for fire service?
I also have read that there is a section of the Ohio Revised Code that deals with this very thing when Fire Departments are split up. I have heard that some on the fire department are upset with the ''talk'' of a city township or a City Fire department. Guys, welcome to the taxpayers world!! In the last 15 years I have been downsized reorganized and laid off more than once. All in the name of saving money for my employers. Why should the Fire Fighters be any different. Who do they think they are teachers?
I am sure when all is said and done they will have good jobs which ever department they end up with. Who is the assistant fire Chief? Is he ready to lead his OWN department?
In that SE Messenger article they talked about a levy all of the city residents pay and it amounts to around $200,000 per year going to the Township from City Tax payers. Exactly what does the City get for their $200,000?
I have also heard that the City could form its own fire department and not form a paper township. I believe I read that in the City Charter.
I think what you would need to do is first consult an attorney in the field of public law and have them write up an initiative. I am also sure the City will help you get the form of that petition correct before circulation. Once on the street you will get a feel from the citizens on how they feel about taxes and the Violet Fire Department. If the voters approve then you have your freedom from the Township.
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Thanks for the follow up
Anonymous,
Thanks for the follow up. I didn?’t know about this Ed Laramee thing. Is he a county or state official? Perhaps there are some questions I could float his way. An initiative petition seems like a good route to take but it would help to have a majority of the elected officials in the city in support from the outset. Or if there could never be a majority willing to act in the best interests of the residents, then take those that would act in our best interests and partner with them in an initiative issue.
As to your paragraph regarding the information in the SE Messenger, if we are currently paying $2.2M to the township, I assume that is strictly for fire services, right? Because not a single poster has reported in outlining any other single service the township provides us. If we leave Violet Township, we no longer pay that to the township so the same amount could be applied to city fire protection? I mean if we leave the township we stop paying the township our tax money. Certainly there could be no way that if we leave them, we have to pay them for anything, right?
I also heartily agree with your paragraph on reorganizations and right sizing. I have also been a victim of that. I have even had to take pay cuts to stay employed but a small reduction was far better than a total loss of pay. However, if my assumption of recouping our tax dollars from paying the township, I would imagine salary levels would remain relatively the same. The only inconvenience the employees would suffer would be some short-term housing conditions until we got different facilities built. But keep in mind that when we received our 40% of the assets, wouldn?’t it be safe to assume that we would get the fire station on Lockville? That lone station was adequate for years to service the entire township and now we only need to service the city so that should suffice for a while.
I don?’t know who would lead the city fire department. That would be a decision they would have to male themselves but I am sure there are qualified individuals currently on staff who could step up to the challenge. It is interesting that you say that the city could start a fire department without starting its own township. If that fire department is our only tie to the township, and we are severing that, we might as well make a clean break. After all, at some point in the future the city and township will have to sit down at the table to start up economic agreement talks again as soon as an equitable document is presented. We might as well posture ourselves to be an equal partner for those talks because it doesn?’t appear from all the media reports that the township considers us an equal partner at this time. Maybe they will be more respectful if we are talking ?“township to township.?”
Lastly, the city already employs one of the premier municipal law firms in the state. Potentially they have already handled cases like this elsewhere on numerous occasions. It just takes someone on council to ask them to look into it for us.
As I said, I am on the road this week and haven?’t had time to do any further research from my earlier postings. I am forgoing lunch today to post this. Again, we have the chance to reinvest our tax dollars in our city. Please help me find information that proves we can do it ourselves for the same or less cost.
By Patriot
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