 - mallory
- Respected Neighbor
- USA
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Here's how I envision that football scene to play out. I'm sitting there enjoying the game with my same sex partner. You're sitting 8 rows behind me. A guy a couple of rows ahead of me pulls out his gun. You've been sort of paying attention to the game but luckily do see him before he fires so you remove your weapon from where you were hugging it to your breast and you put a bullet through the guy. Unfortunately it continues on through two other students, killing both.
There's another gun lover sitting 8 seats to your left who sees you start shooting and killing three people. He assumes the worst, (correctly) that you're a crazy gun nut, and stands up and shoots you. You return fire before dying. Others of your ilk notice all the shooting and start to also shoot the shooters. Of the 50,000 in the stands, maybe only 10 or 20 are fatally shot before it stops. Of course, what would stop it? How would all the shooters know which were good and which were bad shooters. Do you boys have a secret sign to let others know you're a nice guy and shouldn't be shot?
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 - nedl
- Valued Neighbor
- Muscabamastan
- 5426 Posts
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Here's how I envision that football scene to play out. I'm sitting there enjoying the game with my same sex partner. You're sitting 8 rows behind me. A guy a couple of rows ahead of me pulls out his gun. You've been sort of paying attention to the game but luckily do see him before he fires so you remove your weapon from where you were hugging it to your breast and you put a bullet through the guy. Unfortunately it continues on through two other students, killing both.
There's another gun lover sitting 8 seats to your left who sees you start shooting and killing three people. He assumes the worst, (correctly) that you're a crazy gun nut, and stands up and shoots you. You return fire before dying. Others of your ilk notice all the shooting and start to also shoot the shooters. Of the 50,000 in the stands, maybe only 10 or 20 are fatally shot before it stops. Of course, what would stop it? How would all the shooters know which were good and which were bad shooters. Do you boys have a secret sign to let others know you're a nice guy and shouldn't be shot?
If I was a liberal and involved in those scenarios, I'd do the liberal thing. I'd take out my cell phone, assuming it wasn't already stuck to my head, dial 911, spend the next 15 minutes talking to some dispatcher, should they answer. Then try to stay out of sight for another 15+ minutes until the police get there and end the situation, one way or another. Then, if my phone had a camera, I'd photograph all the bodies, post it on facebook, get interviewed by all the TV networks, write a book promoting gun control. That would get me even more TV interviews and on talk shows. Then I'd run for political office as a 'crat gun control freak, embrace homosexuality, abortion, socialism, more government control over everyone's lives, and uncontrolled spending while working to undermine religion in the USA at the same time flooding the country with illegals and preping America for martial law.
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 - hiroad
- Respected Neighbor
- The Hilltop
- 5055 Posts
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Malodery: You really should get to a good head doctor.
Why are you more afraid of law abiding citizens legally carrying a gun, than you are of criminal and thug type obumbler voters illegally carrying a gun?
Don't tell me neither should be packing a gun as that is not a real world scenario because it appears that none of you libs have been able to disarm the criminals and thugs, only the law abiding citizens.
Your fear sounds "crazy" and absurdly misplaced to me.
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- hiroad
- Respected Neighbor
- The Hilltop
- 5055 Posts
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For your edification and education. Here is what happens when "socialists" take over a government and "confiscate" guns. This is a recent thread from the Smith & Wesson forum with the last reply today. The original post/question is by a fella who lives in one of these "socialist" controlled S. American countries. Note he says he is banned under penalty of prison from carrying a defensive handgun, but cannot safely venture out onto the streets unless he is in an armored vehicle.:
 08-05-2012, 05:08 PM |
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 Smith & Wesson revolver
identification
I would
appreciate very much if somebody of you could help me in the identification a
Smith & Wesson revolver model:
Some weeks ago, a friend of mine gave me a
Smith & Wesson .38 Special revolver that he found in poor conditions of
storage, lost in a big warehouse for at least thirty five years. The gun was
heavily rusted, pitted and some parts were missing. The worst part were the
cylinder that had been apparently smashed with a heavy hammer or pressed in such
way that became deformed and two of the chambers were made oval shaped making
this piece unuseable. After cleaning, filing, sanding the frame and installing
the missing parts to the action, the revolver seems to be still serviceable but
only if a new cylinder and perhaps a new cylinder stop are fitted.
Unable to
identify the model I made a research at the Internet but the characteristics of
this gun does not match completely with any of the S&W revolver models
displayed or may be that I did not look at the right places.
In order to
purchase a new cylinder, I must confirm the frame size (it seems to be a
N-frame) and model and then is when I need help from persons like you, with
knowledge and experience about Smith & Wesson revolvers.
I have attached
photos of the revolver. The serial number engraved at the heel of the frame
grip, cylinder edge and interior of ejector rod shroud is - S 90XXX - the
alphanumeric code engraved at the frame at the yoke area (that I think could be
the model´s number) is: - E 4145 -
I reshaped the front sight that was
originally half moon but was twisted and dented. I also cut about ¼” and
recrowned the barrel because It was also very damaged.
Thanks a
lot.
waffenmann
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# 2  08-05-2012, 05:18 PM
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Sounds like it may be best kept as a paperweight conversation piece, since there is a good chance the frame and/or crane is also warped. "Filing and sanding" the frame sounds a little scary, too...  However, If the frame is confirmed as OK, my first guess would be it's a 38-44 heavy duty and it should not be too difficult to find a replacement 38spl cylinder. Good luck. |
# 3 08-05-2012, 10:12 PM
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S&W revolver identification.
Thanks for your
reply, apparently everything but the cylinder is ok, nothing else is crushed,
bent or warped. The filing and sanding was made only on the pitted surface of
the frame, not affecting the functioning of the mechanism. I still need to
confirm the model to order the right cylinder.
It would be good to leave
this piece as paperweight, sparing all the hand work, but fixing this gun is
really important taking into consideration that all firearm sales are completely
banned in the place where I live (the criminals get all they want from the black
market) and it is almost impossible to get a gun for protection of the HOME;
carrying a gun without permit for personal protection in the street is penalized
with 10 years in prison and there are not permits issued by
authorities.
For personal protection in the street, the only way is to go
in, at least, a Level NIJ III A armored car and have UN-ARMED body guards.
It is relatively possible to have guns for home protection but even for
this purpose they are illegal and subject of confiscation but not penalized with
prison.
Thanks.
Waffenmann
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# 4 08-05-2012, 10:23 PM
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Welcome to the
Forum.
That serial number dates to 1953 for a large frame or about 1946 for a
medium frame, according to the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson.
A half
moon front sight means it is ether a .38/44 Heavy Duty or a Military and Police
revolver. The Heavy Duty is the large frame, the M&P is the medium frame.
The Heavy Duty will have an under barrel shroud around the ejector rod. Does
this have one?
Pics would help if you can post some.
Jim
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# 5 08-06-2012, 01:54 AM
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Thank you, Jim.
The revolver has an underbarrel shroud around the ejector rod. I started today
to post in the forum and still trying to find how to load pictures (sorry). I
will find the way the days to come. It seems you know a lot about S&W
revolvers, I ask you if you could tell me if a S&W model 28 cylinder could
fit my revolver ? If so, I will order one and try to fit it. Here there are
precision machinists and good equipments including CNC mills, EDM machines, ED
wire cutters, etc. but there are not a single gunsmith or armorer, neither are
gunsmith shops because everything about guns is prohibitted or banned. From that
point of view I will have to do all the refurbishing of this S&W by myself
with the help of some technical handbook like the one from J. Kunhausen that I
will order as soon as possible. I am not very knowledgeable about gunsmithing
but I´m a quick learner. Thanks again for your help. Raúl
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# 6 08-06-2012, 02:26 AM
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Sorry to hear of
your (country's) plight regarding personal firearms ownership. I wonder if those
who passed the laws are subject to their consequences, or are the ones able to
afford armored vehicles and armed security.
A model 28 cylinder should
fit your gun; it may have the same dimensions or be slightly longer than the
original .38/44 part, but if so it can be shortened, given the local metal
working capabilities you mentioned. Hope this is helpful, and stay safe!
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# 7 08-06-2012, 03:01 AM
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just out of
curiosity....what country? thanks.
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# 8 08-06-2012, 04:20 AM
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Thanks again. I
will buy the mod. 28 cylinder along with a new cylinder stop, indexing hand,
etc. and the book of J. Kunhausen. By the way, I live in one of the latin
american countries under the the government of the socialism of the 21st
century. No further comments. Kind regards.
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# 9 08-06-2012, 09:47 AM
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You weren't given
a Model # because the gun predates model numbers which started in 1957. It has
the Model name of 38/44 Heavy Duty. It became the Model 20 in 1957 so you can
look for parts for that Model #.
The Mod 28 cylinder is a 357 Magnum
cylinder but also is correct to shoot 38 Specials. But do not shoot 357s in it
even though they chamber because the frame was not designed for 357 mag.
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# 10 08-06-2012, 02:50 PM
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Thank you Jim for
your advice. I will get the 28 cylinder and shorten it that it is an operation
easer and cheaper than shortening the barrel from the rear end. Kind regards.
Raúl.
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# 11  Today, 01:41 AM |
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Hi Jim, as I
said, I ordered from Numrich the # 317080 Cyl. Assy. but by the time the vendor
received the order it was sold out. The only Cyl. Assy. available now are: for
model 28 # 1030720 (New Style) and for model 27 # 317060 which I don´t know if
it is Old or New Style. I would like to know if the "New Style" could fit in
this old revolver, of course after minor surgery. Once again I depend on your
knowledgeable advice to order the right part. Thanks in advance for your kind
help.
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# 12 Today, 03:17 AM
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A six-round N
frame .357 cylinder is 1.62", and the .38 Special cylinder is 1.57", according
to a standard reference.
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# 13 Today, 11:23 AM
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Thanks for your
kind reply. I understand it is neccesary to shorten the cylinder, the rear end
of the barrel or both in order the cylinder to fit - I have investigated in
Internet and found that diameter of the cylinder I have is the same for N frame.
What I am not sure is if a "New Style" cylinder for a S&W mod. 27 or 28
could work (after shortening) in a S&W 38-44 Heavy Duty because of the
difference in the extractor/star, etc. Where I live I did not find any piece to
compare neither found any gunsmith to ask because there are no gunsmiths with
knowledge to this extent. The face of the cyl I have is flat with no cut for the
rim of the case.
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# 14 Today, 01:22 PM
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The .357 cylinder
at the time the Heavy Duty was made had cutouts for the case rims (called a
"recessed" cylinder), and the current model does not. The HD cylinder did not
have this feature, so my guess is a current production .357 cylinder of proper
length will work if it fits.
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# 15 Today, 05:44 PM
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Hmmm...sounds
like Venezuela or Cuba.
Good luck. If the time comes for a revolution,
maybe those machine shops can turn out Sten guns.
I'm sorry that
circumstances are so bad for you. Is archery legal? Can you even carry a knife?
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# 16 Today, 06:11 PM
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Rebuilding a
heavily damaged gun from the ground up takes patience, talent, and
determination. You seem to have all three. Please keep us informed on your
progress, and don't forget the pictures. We'd also like to see a picture of the
finished product, with a used paper target for a background. Best of luck.
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aughta.....
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